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Post by Minnesota Twins on Jun 20, 2017 15:41:51 GMT -6
We are going to go ahead and put this poll up, as it will have a drastic effect on the future of the league. H2H CATs is the potential future while H2H Points is our past and present. I wanted to wait and have this poll coted on at the end of the year, but it eneds to be handled now as any move from FA moves to trades to drops are effected by this decision.
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Post by Minnesota Twins on Jun 20, 2017 15:42:24 GMT -6
A vote of 7 for either will need to be had to crown a winner.
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Post by Minnesota Twins on Jun 20, 2017 18:14:28 GMT -6
We will either do a 6x6 or 7x7. 7x7 is preferred and i dont exactly know which to would be removed if we went to 6x6 but the thought for 7x7 is
Hitting 1. Average 2. Home Runs 3. Extra Base Hits or Total Bases 4. RBIs 5. Walks 6. Stolen Bases 7. Runs Scored
Pitching 1. Wins 2. Quality Starts 3. ERA 4. WHIP 5. Strikeouts 6. Saves 7. Holds
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Post by Deleted on Jun 20, 2017 18:27:48 GMT -6
In hitting you got runs and runs scored
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Post by Deleted on Jun 20, 2017 18:28:26 GMT -6
And I think you could combine Saves/holds possibly
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Post by Minnesota Twins on Jun 20, 2017 18:29:33 GMT -6
Left out average, sorry.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 20, 2017 18:30:35 GMT -6
That makes sense. I'd vote 7x7 personally
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Post by Minnesota Twins on Jun 20, 2017 18:34:13 GMT -6
I would too. But now that we know we're going to CATs, we can vote on the specifics in the offseason
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Post by New York Yankees on Jun 20, 2017 18:34:33 GMT -6
I'd prefer 6x6 taking out walks and holds just off of first glance here. I like this move to cats tho, and 7x7 isn't too blasphemous! Haha
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Post by Minnesota Twins on Jun 20, 2017 18:43:58 GMT -6
Everyones opinion matters and i will happily consider all options being added to the poll we do in the future to decide what will be best.
Overall im excited to be making this move. I believe it'll be a huge and positive change longterm.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 20, 2017 19:58:31 GMT -6
7 7 keep walks and holds for CATS league.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 20, 2017 22:09:19 GMT -6
7x7 is my vote
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Post by Deleted on Jun 20, 2017 22:12:33 GMT -6
7×7 my vote as well although i voted for points
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Post by Chicago Cubs on Jun 21, 2017 8:07:24 GMT -6
I personally like total bases as a category instead of extra base hits.
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Post by New York Yankees on Jun 21, 2017 8:53:42 GMT -6
Everybody having to go out and acquire hold pitchers to win holds seems completely asinine to me. At least combine it with saves and take out walks.
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Post by Chicago Cubs on Jun 21, 2017 9:02:43 GMT -6
If we do that, we could always use On-Base percentage instead of average. That would still make walks valuable.
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Post by Minnesota Twins on Jun 21, 2017 9:06:43 GMT -6
I think walks needs to be left in. Thats a pretty big stat imo.. But also combining holds and saves will lower the value of Closers. Its not hard to find guys that get holds.
Regardless that can definitely go to a vote as well.
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Post by Minnesota Twins on Jun 21, 2017 9:09:11 GMT -6
If we do that, we could always use On-Base percentage instead of average. That would still make walks valuable. This isnt a bad idea either. Definitely takes care of the issue. I still have the same stance on holds and walks. Combining walks and holds will devalue closers.
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Post by New York Yankees on Jun 21, 2017 9:51:42 GMT -6
You make a good point there Taylor. I guess I am more or less just a holds hater haha. Maybe it will grow on me.
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Post by Minnesota Twins on Jun 21, 2017 10:04:28 GMT -6
I am a holds hater too... My argument is for closers and anyone who has invested alot in closers. Maybe down the road we can change it but i know theres a few teams here who have invested alot in closers and i dont want to send them down shits creek without a paddle, for lack of better terminology. Still not against it going to a vote. And if that was to happen... And we combine both, Toronto already gave us a good option on the hitting side with OBP. In the next few days ill throw a few polls up and we'll see what we come up with.
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Post by Minnesota Twins on Jun 21, 2017 10:22:07 GMT -6
You make a good point there Taylor. I guess I am more or less just a holds hater haha. Maybe it will grow on me. From experience, i can say holds will grow on you if you arent winning saves but ARE winning holds every week 😂
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Post by Deleted on Jun 21, 2017 10:49:15 GMT -6
If we do that, we could always use On-Base percentage instead of average. That would still make walks valuable. This isnt a bad idea either. Definitely takes care of the issue. I still have the same stance on holds and walks. Combining walks and holds will devalue closers. I am in another league that has saves as a cat and svs+hlds as a cat this way holders only get u a save+hold where as a closer earns u a point in both cats making closers twice as valuable than holders but retaining value for holders as well
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Post by Minnesota Twins on Jun 21, 2017 10:54:28 GMT -6
This isnt a bad idea either. Definitely takes care of the issue. I still have the same stance on holds and walks. Combining walks and holds will devalue closers. I am in another league that has saves as a cat and svs+hlds as a cat this way holders only get u a save+hold where as a closer earns u a point in both cats making closers twice as valuable than holders but retaining value for holders as well Essentially all saves get coubted in 2 seperate CATs? Thats interesting...
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Post by Deleted on Jun 21, 2017 11:05:18 GMT -6
I am in another league that has saves as a cat and svs+hlds as a cat this way holders only get u a save+hold where as a closer earns u a point in both cats making closers twice as valuable than holders but retaining value for holders as well Essentially all saves get coubted in 2 seperate CATs? Thats interesting... Exactly, saves get counted twice , hlds only once ! Also , I think maybe we get rid of wins for a pitcher and just go with a quality start , because relief pitchers get wins too but only a starter can get a quality start , and u can get a quality start with a win or a loss , I feel it is a better measure for a pitcher
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Post by New York Yankees on Jun 21, 2017 11:06:34 GMT -6
After further thought, I agree that combining saves and holds is not the answer, unless you do it like Arizona suggested and have that as a separate category from saves.
I just think that chasing holds as a standalone stat is going to suck, but I agree with a lot of other posters on not eliminating walks; the batting side of proposed scoring here looks pretty darn good. The solution here is finding a way to eliminate holds! Haha
I propose that we replace holds with a telling, all encompassing pitching stat like K/9.
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Post by Minnesota Twins on Jun 21, 2017 11:16:25 GMT -6
Both very interesting. I dont have an issue with RPs stealing wins.. Its part of the value that middle or long relievers would bring. Guys like c. devenski or a. warren would lose alot of value without snagging some wins. K/9 is an interesting thought. Alot to talk about here guys. Alot of interesting ways we could go with these cats.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 21, 2017 11:22:01 GMT -6
After further thought, I agree that combining saves and holds is not the answer, unless you do it like Arizona suggested and have that as a separate category from saves.
I just think that chasing holds as a standalone stat is going to suck, but I agree with a lot of other posters on not eliminating walks; the batting side of proposed scoring here looks pretty darn good. The solution here is finding a way to eliminate holds! Haha
I propose that we replace holds with a telling, all encompassing pitching stat like K/9. My argument for holds is this , each real life team has their 1 main closer but may have 3 or 4 hold guys .... By eliminating holds 1st and foremost u really devalue the relief pitcher pool , I mean why carry a guy in a cap league that isn't really contributing and 2nd , I don't wanna say I have built my team around this but I will use betancis as an example .... He may get a bigger payday on his next arb deal or may sign a really big contract at some point , so now I. Have a guy I am paying and he has been devalued ..... holds adds a valuable strategy to this league , it adds value to players that otherwise have none , and adds value when trading for a guy that will give u holds now and may be future closer stats
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Post by Minnesota Twins on Jun 21, 2017 11:27:50 GMT -6
I completely agree and thats why i would argue for holds.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 21, 2017 11:28:31 GMT -6
Both very interesting. I dont have an issue with RPs stealing wins.. Its part of the value that middle or long relievers would bring. Guys like c. devenski or a. warren would lose alot of value without snagging some wins. K/9 is an interesting thought. Alot to talk about here guys. Alot of interesting ways we could go with these cats. In the other league we also have relief wins as a stat , starters get quality starts , relievers get either saves , saves+hlds , or relief wins ..... The pitcher pool is deeper and trades are deeper and the strategy is deeper
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Post by New York Yankees on Jun 21, 2017 11:32:17 GMT -6
3-4 hold relievers per MLB team, 30 MLB teams. Such a diluted talent pool.
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